Hi...so far I have not written a single mail to this
site...but after reading a few mails, I guess I am
proud to have you guys as my friends. I am a
Singaporean indian who would love having friends like
you guys. Keep in touch...If u would like to extend ur
friendship to me, then mail me...god bless u...

--- h_granger303 <h_granger303@...> wrote:

> hi my name is Dana but i prefer to be known as
> Hermione of the harry
> potter movies/books.I'm a mix race of chinese indian
> descent and i very
> strongly believe in what hermione stands up for,the
> oppressed and
> unfairly treated group of ppl/
>
> i think tht chinese exclude us and indians dislike
> us because we r
> neither them wholly.n hermione believes in elves
> rights-ref to gof book.
> she defends their rights when ppl n no one cares or
> bothers.
>
> anyway,i look fwd to contributing to this site.
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Welcome! It's so nice to meet other chindians. You know, I've NEVER
met another chindian in real life before. I've always knew that
there's chindians out there, but I've never met another. It's like a
white person never meeting another white person before, or a black
person never meeting another black person before.

I've gotten off topic. But I just like hearing about other chindians.
Especially ones where the father is chinese and the mother is indian
(like me) because those are even more rare than the father being
indian and the mother chinese.

But yeah. Welcome to the group.

And I'll shut up now.

I lived in the US for more than 10 years, and I have to agree that
the average European American is not as *openly* hung up on skin
color as the average Asian immigrant in the United States. Private
preferences are something else though - census statistics on
intermarriage are very telling. European Americans have a higher
rate of intermarrying with lighter-skinned minorities than with
darker-skinned minorities. Some mixed race Americans have pointed
out that 'white' Americans love bragging about their Native American
or Asian great-grandma, but if they have a black great-grandma, they
hide the fact.  And the light-skinned East Asian is a much more
popular dating choice for the white male than the generally darker
South Asian.

I'm not invalidating your positive experience with your American
friends though. I had many good experiences in the US too but not
everyone else I know had good experiences, and it isn't their fault.
Uncle of an American friend of mine was killed in a racist attack in
the 1980s. On another level, some racist Americans just express
their biases less openly and in a much more complex way. For
example, many white men who date Asian women hate to see Asian men
dating white women. Now some other people, white or non-white, find
that kind of double-standard racist. Most of my American friends are
non-white, and many date interracially. They have experienced this
sort of racial double standard over and over - white and Asian
people telling an Asian woman she shouldn't date a black man, and
that she should date a white man. Or white women telling an Asian
man he shouldn't be with that black woman, Or white men asking a
black woman what she sees in an Asian man, etc. It sounds stupid but
I'm not making this up. This really happened to people I know.

So you could have intermarriage and racism co-existing. And
sometimes, because it is less open,  it is more difficult to
confront it and deal with it. Especially when racial bias actually
masquerades as 'open-mindedness' - the showoffish, 'look at me, I
like people of color and I'm dating one' attitude can be argued to
be as racist as disliking people of color. And white people aren't
the only ones who can be racist too. Americans of any 'race' are
just like people anywhere - there are some nice ones, and some not-
so-nice ones.

But having said that, I do agree with with you that Asian colorism
is very unfortunate. I had a few comments on my features and darker
skin color in Singapore but it's nothing compared to how Asian
immigrants from Korea, China, Taiwan, etc, talk in the US. There
were Koreans who kept harping about my color and my assumed mixed
descent just because I'm dark and from Singapore. They didn't say
anything openly negative, but I could tell from their attitude that
they did not have a high regard for darker people or mixed people.
And some people from China/Taiwan seemed constantly obsessed
with 'lighter is righter'. And my Indian friend's in-laws were
afraid to give tea to their grandchildren because 'tea would turn
them dark'. And the list goes on.

I think that persons of all colors can be beautiful (beauty, is
after all, a 'social construct' and an 'acquired taste', in some
ways), and the 'lighter is righter' brainwashing is hurting children
all over the world.

It's interesting also that you mention that when all human beings
are mixed, then maybe they'll stop making others feel bad. I hope so
but I don't know ;-) Practically all humans are ALREADY mixed. Most
modern 'races' (the peoples of China and India included) were formed
from the mixing of  a few (and usually more than a few)
ancient 'races' most of whom no longer exist today. Humans will
always find something to 'differentiate' between each other and
bicker about. Just think of all the conflicts that are non-race-
related. But not to end on a negative note. I think each of us, as
individuals, can still make a positive difference, small or big. :-)


--- In SingaporeNonEurasianMixedRaceFamilies@yahoogroups.com, Sharon
Ng <sharonng_1999@y...> wrote:
>
> i like my skin color now :) but i know what u mean about being
brought  up in the west. I went to school in the US and its funny
because before  i got there i heard such negative things about
americans and they were  the ones that made me feel like i didn't
have to be light skinned to be  accepted. some of my friends were
wishing they could have a tan even  during the winter :). Maybe its
because its such an individualistic  society and eveyone wants to be
different. They just assumed all  singaporeans looked like me... i
am 100% asian after all. I think the  older asian generations just
cannot cope with the changes happening in  the world and they just
want to hold on to what they know. My family  had issues on both
sides....the indian side said negative things about  my fathers
features and the chinese side had issues with color. I guess  that's
why i took it so hard cause i have my fathers eyes and my  mother's
skin tone. But i love my eyes now, i think they're just so  exotic, i
>  look at lucy liu and get so happy cause i think she's  beautiful.
I think the more i learn about other cultures, the more  secure i
get in my own skin. But thanks for your comments its so nice  to
know that there are other people with my mix around :). Maybe
someday all human beings will be mixed and then maybe we will stop
making others feel bad about things they cannot change and start
talking about the things we can.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.
>

hi my name is Dana but i prefer to be known as Hermione of the harry
potter movies/books.I'm a mix race of chinese indian descent and i very
strongly believe in what hermione stands up for,the oppressed and
unfairly treated group of ppl/

i think tht chinese exclude us and indians dislike us because we r
neither them wholly.n hermione believes in elves rights-ref to gof book.
she defends their rights when ppl n no one cares or bothers.

anyway,i look fwd to contributing to this site.

My dad is chinese and my mum is indian too. I'm not dark skinned. I'm
more of an olive skin colour. And people just think that I'm fully
indian. They never know that I'm half chinese. But my sister is darker
than me, and a lot of people think she's filipino. She's beautiful
too. People don't make fun of her though. I think it's because we live
in Canada and that there's more racial groups here and there's a lot
of mixed people. But I do find that my family from my chinese side
don't really except me or my siblings. My stupid grandma doesn't like
my mother at all because she's dark skinned. It's really stupid. I say
screw what other people think. They're not good people if they think
you're not as good as your sister because she is lighter than you.
Just be happy with the way you are. Dark skin is beautiful. My mum and
sister are proof of that. They have beautiful skin colour. Be happy
with your skin :-)

This has been interesting to read. I am wondering if there is anyone
on here that is the same racial makeup as me. My father is Chinese and
my mother is Indian. It has been difficult sometimes and i have heard
people make nasty comments throughout my life ....most people look at
me and know i am not totally chinese, i have a very sharp nose but
traditional single eyelids, straight hair but i am tanned skinned. I
have a sister who looks eurasian, big eyes, sharp nose, wavy hair and
very fair. I spent most of my life just being confused and very self
concious. My sister and I are close but sometimes i feel our
experiences living in singapore are so different. I have had people
(some in my family) comment that my sister is so lucky she is fair....
and i sit there thinking so i am unlucky?? It doesn't matter that i do
great in school and that i am a good person? My poor sister feels
horrible when people start comparing us cause she knows she could have
just as easily have looked like me. Its just so shallow and
superficial. I noticed however that these same people do that to
everyone, constantly comparing everyone, making everyone around them
uncomfortable not just me. It seems like such a simple thing to just
accept everyone for who they are but for some reason its really hard,
its so much easier to just be able to take one look and put someone in
a catergory.... easier for the person who is judging at least. I
realise now that people who make nasty comments are just nasty in
general and people who say nice things are nice in general. It is more
a reflection on them than on me. And i realise that it is hard on
everyone being around people like that and not just those from mixed
parentage... i hav to say that i love my parents and i would rather be
from a mixed happy home than an unhappy one. it has taught me
tolerance and a whole lot of patience and for that i will be forever
grateful to my parents for taking a risk and being together because as
hard as it has been for me and my sister..... it has been so much
harder for them.

Gubra, the sequel to Sepet, is now playing in a few theaters.  Sepet
is also rerunning in one theater, I believe.

Review: http://www.moviexclusive.com/review/gubra/gubra.htm
Official site: http://www.gubra.com.my/

--- In
SingaporeNonEurasianMixedRaceFamilies@yahoogroups.com, "baihe_wan"
<baihe_wan@y...> wrote:
>
> Yasmin Ahmad's 2004 film about a romance between a Malay student and
a
> Chinese VCD seller.
>
> Official site: http://www.sepet.com.my/
> Review: http://www.mycen.com.my/duasen/230205_sepet.html
>

Yasmin Ahmad's 2004 film about a romance between a Malay student and a
Chinese VCD seller.

Official site: http://www.sepet.com.my/
Review: http://www.mycen.com.my/duasen/230205_sepet.html

Dear Yuffie,

Thank you for taking the time to share with us. I am appalled and
saddened by your experience with intolerance. But it is wonderful
that you are strong and can stand up to the pressure from family and
society. I have unfortunately learnt by experience that many, if not
most people, will cave in to the need for 'social approval', or at
least the lack of social disapproval. My best wishes to you and your
fiance on a happy life together.

I've seen people who will stand by while a minority (not necessarily
ethnic minority) is being verbally attacked even if they disapprove
of the attack and do not hold the same prejudices as the attackers
because the 'good people' do not want to risk their own social
standing by being labeled as a 'sympathizer' with a despised group
or worse, suspected of being a member of it.

I think it might not be a bad idea if you send an account of your
experiences to the newspaper. That encounter at the immigration
office can be an eye opener for people in the majority. I think
people, whether in the majority or minority, can benefit from
looking at themselves in the eye and confronting their own
prejudices. Singapore might need a wakeup call in that there's more
we have to improve on in terms of getting along and living together.
Anyway, it is just a suggestion.

To take wider perspective, we might not necessarily be worse than
other multicultural countries when it comes to interracial
relationships. Friend from the UK mentioned last year that a black
UK youth was stabbed to death by white youths because he dated a
white girl. And friends from the US are always complaining how over
there it is acceptable for white men to date non-white women, but
non-white men who date white women (or even non-white women outside
their own ethnic groups) often encounter hostility from white men.
But having said that, we need to work on our own problems cos' it is
the problems in Singapore that we have to live with, not problems
somewhere else.


--- In
SingaporeNonEurasianMixedRaceFamilies@yahoogroups.com, "jenovajojo"
<jenovajojo@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> My name is Yuffie and I've just reached 20.
> I was elated to come across this group - but it looks quite empty!
I
> hope it'd fill up and be a bit more lively...
>
> I'm Chinese Singaporean and my fiance is an Indian living in the
Arab
> gulf.
> I'd like to just say I used to be the ignorant sort, thinking all
was
> well with our multiculturalism - or lack of it in the sense that
> everyone thinks that as long as we stay within our own racial lines
> and gene pool all is fine - until I met my fiance while studing in
> Australia.
> He proposed to me at 16, and I agreed...for those who think it's a
bit
> strange a 16 year old can make such a life-changing decision, I've
> always been very mature, I've always known what I wanted in my
life.
> My sister was the first to dislike him, especially when he used to
> send gifts to me and we used to go out and talk - like the best of
> friends. Things were innocent and casual...but she never did quite
> like the idea of an "indian" being that close to me.
> Later, my family had some problems and I had to return to
Singapore.
> My fiance followed me, and the hardest thing was telling my
mother.
>
> She really disliked him, and never bothered to hide her dislike for
> him. He stayed at my house for a while, and during this time, my
> family went on offense. I understand they felt I was 17 at the time
> and felt compelled to protect me, despite my assurances I wasn't
in a
> sexual relationship with him.
> My mother is a strong Catholic and she thought that I was not only
> being lured into a sexual relationship, that I was going to
convert to
> Islam because he was a Muslim, and be "abused" and become a co-wife
> with 3 other wives he might marry.
> My brother is a complete racist. He made all sorts of racist slurs
on
> my fiance, and needless to say it was a very big thing for my
fiance
> as he hates racists. But for me, he kept his comments to himself,
not
> wanting to offend my brother, or me.
> My mother knew I was going to marry him, she was devastated. She
never
> really completely showed it to me, but I became the "bad sheep" of
the
> family, from being the one with the most potential - the only one
> actually pursuing a degree apart from my siblings. The only one
who's
> doing law even without her financial support.
>
> If that wasn't enough, my fiance and I were mercilessly tormented,
> stared at, laughed at, pointed at - by my fellow Singaporeans. I
know
> many of them don't really mean it deviously, but their opinions
about
> a Chinese girl with an Indian just because he's darker than I am -
> that the sterotype of Indians being alcoholic (he's muslim! He
doesn't
> drink!) or wife-beaters (any man can be a wife-beater. Not just a
> race) - that he's somehow cheating me, or that I'm a slutty girl
who's
> probably doing it for money, disgracing my family.
> My fiance and I have believe strongly in sex after marriage. This
is
> partially due to the fact that we believe our union is one of love
and
> not just the lust and casualness of boy-girl relationships. We're
> serious about one another. We were separated several times because
he
> couldn't find a school in time before his short-term visa expired,
and
> I didn't see him for two months. We both cried over the phone, went
> online virtually everyday talking for hours over msn and yahoo!
> messenger. They say "Absence makes the heart fonder" and during
those
> two times we were separated we realised how much we really needed
and
> loved one another. We've seen worse things that people don't seem
to
> bat an eye over:
>
> Young teenage couples making out on escalators in full-view. It
> doesn't seem to bother one man and his wife and toddler son that
the
> sight was just crude - but it bothered him that I was standing
close
> to my fiance, holding his hands.
> Young girls wearing virtually nothing but mini-skirts showing their
> thongs and that together with a micro-mini tank top showing their
bra
> straps - that doesn't bother people strolling along Orchard Road or
> the heartland malls, but my fiance and I walking together, with an
arm
> over me or just close to one another, gets dirty looks from many
people.
>
> The worse thing was once at the immigration, where my fiance was
> collecting his student visa, we sat together and laughed quietly
over
> a private joke. This older man gruffed behind us, "Excuse me, can
you
> not do THESE kind of things here?"
> My fiance, by then used to the general hostility of traditional
> Singaporeans, ignored him, thinking him to be just another one of
> those interacial commentators who somehow think their opinion is
some
> kind of divine law.
> He then prodded my fiance. "Hey, I talked to you. Can you don't do
> these things here?"
> My fiance turned to him and said finally, "what things?"
> I kept silent for a while, hoping this wouldn't escalate. But i
was wrong.
> "If you want to do these things go to a hotel, ok?" The guy yelled.
> I was confused. By this time, everyone was staring at us.
> "Why you so cheap?" He asked me. "How can you do these things?"
> I was confused, and so was my fiance. But he was infuriated by the
man
> calling me cheap. What is cheap? A Chinese girl sitting with an
Indian
>  guy?
> "Yah, why you so cheap ah? How can you let him do these things to
> you?" The woman beside the older man parroted irritatingly.
> My fiance stood up. "What cheap? Why did you call her cheap?"
> I tried to coax my fiance to sit down and ignore him, that this
> ignorant, illiterate man wouldn't worth it.
> My fiance told me, "He called you cheap. How can he say that?"
> The man got up and my fiance crossed where I was sitting to face
the man.
> "Why you so cheap?" He said again, facing and addressing me as if
my
> fiance didn't exist.
> "Can you not act like a barbarian?" I snarled at the man, very
> offended. I was close to tears being labelled a "cheap" girl when I
> knew what I was. I sure as hell wasn't a "cheap" girl. My honour
had
> been hijacked by this man.
> "I'm not acting like a barbarian." He retorted.
> Byt his time, my fiance was telling him to go back and sit down,
and
> asked him again, "Why did you call my fiance cheap? She's my
fiance!"
> "You two go and take a room!" he yelled.
> Everyone stared at us, some with accusing eyes. Not one person
stepped
> up to stop this man from insulting us. Only an Indian security
officer
> came to see what was the big fuss about finally.
> The man shoved my fiance, and my fiance defended himself by
blocking.
> The man was yelling at my fiance. This man, a 40-ish man bullying
my
> then 19-year old fiance.
> The officer came to stop them from the scruffle. The man was
> questioned by the officer, in which he was yelling at my
fiance "You
> sue lah, you can't do anything!"
> When asked why he bothered us when it was none of his business, he
> said, "Because she's a chinese girl and hes'--" He stopped just
before
> the "I" letter for "Indian", as if it were a dirty word, and
worried
> he'd be accused of racist assault.
> His IC was recorded down, the Head of Security himself, a Malay
man,
> came personally to apologize to us.
> We left, feeling down. I remember how I felt - betrayed. That my
> fellow Chinese ws betray me like this. I made a choice. I made a
> choice to marry a man full of good qualities I admire, with a good
> heart and great character, intelligent and whom makes me laugh, and
> whom protects me from my family always deep in their petty problems
> and strife, my siblings always wanting to find a black sheep to
look
> good in front of the family - this man just happened to be Indian.
>
> I realised how much the Malays and Indians here were discriminated
> upon, and the Chinese don't notice it because they don't feel it!
> They're Chinese, who would treat them badly?
> I'm not stereotyping all the Chinese people. I've met so many nice
> Chinese people, particularly the youngsters, who treated us like
> normal people, who accepted us. But I find in particular, that the
> Malays and Indians here seem to accept an interracial couple more
than
> a Chinese person normally would...unless of course if something
goes
> wrong it's because of religion, not race.
>
> Anyway, I think I've typed a little too much for an introduction.
I'm
> glad to be here, and to hear from you guys and your experiences.
Thanks!
>

I think there are less Indian women marrying Chinese men because if we
notice the norm in Asian culture, the more religious and tight-knit a
family is - the more protective they are of their daughters.
Males are usually accorded more freedom than their female
counterparts, probably on the basis they can look after themselves
more and protect themselves more than the girls.
Indian families as I know it, from some of my Indian friends, tend to
look toward having indian boyfriends because it is not only easier,
the cultural similarities are the same, and as one of my indian female
friends told me - most Chinese guys prefer fairer skinned, Chinese
girls. Indian girls are also more protected by their families, and
even more so if she has a chinese boyfriend, because as I've seen my
fiance go through when he was in Singapore, Indians are more
discriminated upon than Malays or Chinese, because of heavy racial
stereotypes and cultural misunderstanding.
The girl's family see the chinese guy in a more, well, negative light
considering they've been discriminated upon just being indian. Perhaps
they're afraid her boyfriend is just "trying out new races", and he
doesn't want his daughter to be just some experiment and have her
heart broken.

Hi everyone,

My name is Yuffie and I've just reached 20.
I was elated to come across this group - but it looks quite empty! I
hope it'd fill up and be a bit more lively...

I'm Chinese Singaporean and my fiance is an Indian living in the Arab
gulf.
I'd like to just say I used to be the ignorant sort, thinking all was
well with our multiculturalism - or lack of it in the sense that
everyone thinks that as long as we stay within our own racial lines
and gene pool all is fine - until I met my fiance while studing in
Australia.
He proposed to me at 16, and I agreed...for those who think it's a bit
strange a 16 year old can make such a life-changing decision, I've
always been very mature, I've always known what I wanted in my life.
My sister was the first to dislike him, especially when he used to
send gifts to me and we used to go out and talk - like the best of
friends. Things were innocent and casual...but she never did quite
like the idea of an "indian" being that close to me.
Later, my family had some problems and I had to return to Singapore.
My fiance followed me, and the hardest thing was telling my mother.

She really disliked him, and never bothered to hide her dislike for
him. He stayed at my house for a while, and during this time, my
family went on offense. I understand they felt I was 17 at the time
and felt compelled to protect me, despite my assurances I wasn't in a
sexual relationship with him.
My mother is a strong Catholic and she thought that I was not only
being lured into a sexual relationship, that I was going to convert to
Islam because he was a Muslim, and be "abused" and become a co-wife
with 3 other wives he might marry.
My brother is a complete racist. He made all sorts of racist slurs on
my fiance, and needless to say it was a very big thing for my fiance
as he hates racists. But for me, he kept his comments to himself, not
wanting to offend my brother, or me.
My mother knew I was going to marry him, she was devastated. She never
really completely showed it to me, but I became the "bad sheep" of the
family, from being the one with the most potential - the only one
actually pursuing a degree apart from my siblings. The only one who's
doing law even without her financial support.

If that wasn't enough, my fiance and I were mercilessly tormented,
stared at, laughed at, pointed at - by my fellow Singaporeans. I know
many of them don't really mean it deviously, but their opinions about
a Chinese girl with an Indian just because he's darker than I am -
that the sterotype of Indians being alcoholic (he's muslim! He doesn't
drink!) or wife-beaters (any man can be a wife-beater. Not just a
race) - that he's somehow cheating me, or that I'm a slutty girl who's
probably doing it for money, disgracing my family.
My fiance and I have believe strongly in sex after marriage. This is
partially due to the fact that we believe our union is one of love and
not just the lust and casualness of boy-girl relationships. We're
serious about one another. We were separated several times because he
couldn't find a school in time before his short-term visa expired, and
I didn't see him for two months. We both cried over the phone, went
online virtually everyday talking for hours over msn and yahoo!
messenger. They say "Absence makes the heart fonder" and during those
two times we were separated we realised how much we really needed and
loved one another. We've seen worse things that people don't seem to
bat an eye over:

Young teenage couples making out on escalators in full-view. It
doesn't seem to bother one man and his wife and toddler son that the
sight was just crude - but it bothered him that I was standing close
to my fiance, holding his hands.
Young girls wearing virtually nothing but mini-skirts showing their
thongs and that together with a micro-mini tank top showing their bra
straps - that doesn't bother people strolling along Orchard Road or
the heartland malls, but my fiance and I walking together, with an arm
over me or just close to one another, gets dirty looks from many people.

The worse thing was once at the immigration, where my fiance was
collecting his student visa, we sat together and laughed quietly over
a private joke. This older man gruffed behind us, "Excuse me, can you
not do THESE kind of things here?"
My fiance, by then used to the general hostility of traditional
Singaporeans, ignored him, thinking him to be just another one of
those interacial commentators who somehow think their opinion is some
kind of divine law.
He then prodded my fiance. "Hey, I talked to you. Can you don't do
these things here?"
My fiance turned to him and said finally, "what things?"
I kept silent for a while, hoping this wouldn't escalate. But i was wrong.
"If you want to do these things go to a hotel, ok?" The guy yelled.
I was confused. By this time, everyone was staring at us.
"Why you so cheap?" He asked me. "How can you do these things?"
I was confused, and so was my fiance. But he was infuriated by the man
calling me cheap. What is cheap? A Chinese girl sitting with an Indian
  guy?
"Yah, why you so cheap ah? How can you let him do these things to
you?" The woman beside the older man parroted irritatingly.
My fiance stood up. "What cheap? Why did you call her cheap?"
I tried to coax my fiance to sit down and ignore him, that this
ignorant, illiterate man wouldn't worth it.
My fiance told me, "He called you cheap. How can he say that?"
The man got up and my fiance crossed where I was sitting to face the man.
"Why you so cheap?" He said again, facing and addressing me as if my
fiance didn't exist.
"Can you not act like a barbarian?" I snarled at the man, very
offended. I was close to tears being labelled a "cheap" girl when I
knew what I was. I sure as hell wasn't a "cheap" girl. My honour had
been hijacked by this man.
"I'm not acting like a barbarian." He retorted.
Byt his time, my fiance was telling him to go back and sit down, and
asked him again, "Why did you call my fiance cheap? She's my fiance!"
"You two go and take a room!" he yelled.
Everyone stared at us, some with accusing eyes. Not one person stepped
up to stop this man from insulting us. Only an Indian security officer
came to see what was the big fuss about finally.
The man shoved my fiance, and my fiance defended himself by blocking.
The man was yelling at my fiance. This man, a 40-ish man bullying my
then 19-year old fiance.
The officer came to stop them from the scruffle. The man was
questioned by the officer, in which he was yelling at my fiance "You
sue lah, you can't do anything!"
When asked why he bothered us when it was none of his business, he
said, "Because she's a chinese girl and hes'--" He stopped just before
the "I" letter for "Indian", as if it were a dirty word, and worried
he'd be accused of racist assault.
His IC was recorded down, the Head of Security himself, a Malay man,
came personally to apologize to us.
We left, feeling down. I remember how I felt - betrayed. That my
fellow Chinese ws betray me like this. I made a choice. I made a
choice to marry a man full of good qualities I admire, with a good
heart and great character, intelligent and whom makes me laugh, and
whom protects me from my family always deep in their petty problems
and strife, my siblings always wanting to find a black sheep to look
good in front of the family - this man just happened to be Indian.

I realised how much the Malays and Indians here were discriminated
upon, and the Chinese don't notice it because they don't feel it!
They're Chinese, who would treat them badly?
I'm not stereotyping all the Chinese people. I've met so many nice
Chinese people, particularly the youngsters, who treated us like
normal people, who accepted us. But I find in particular, that the
Malays and Indians here seem to accept an interracial couple more than
a Chinese person normally would...unless of course if something goes
wrong it's because of religion, not race.

Anyway, I think I've typed a little too much for an introduction. I'm
glad to be here, and to hear from you guys and your experiences. Thanks!

Malaysian ex-PM has Indian descent from his father's family:

http://planet.time.net.my/Sepang/ttmsb/2003_10_26_arampai.html
"Born on December 20, 1925, the youngest of 10 children of a
schoolteacher father of Indian descent and a Malay mother, Dr Mahathir
trained and practised as a doctor before going into politics in 1964."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahathir_bin_Mohamad
Mahathir said in his autobiography that he had Indian ancestry (from
his father), with its origins tracing back to Kerala in India, while
his mother was a Kedah-born Malay. Mahathir, however, considers himself
to be a "full Malay".

An article on the Belanda Hitam - African soldiers serving in the
Dutch colonial forces in Indonesia:
http://elwininternational.com/hitam.html

Jamaican-born Canadian financial guru Michael Lee-Chin is the
Chairman and CEO of AIC. Lee-Chin's grandfathers were both Chinese
immigrants who settled in Jamaica and married local women - Lee-
Chin's grandmothers.  Michael Lee-Chin acquired AIC Limited in 1987
and has, over the years, taken the organization from $1 million to
more than $14 billion in assets under management. He was the
recipient of the 1997 Entrepreneur of the Year Award for Services by
Ernst & Young, Canadian Business, Bank of Montreal, Nesbitt Burns,
McCarthy Tetreault and Air Canada.

Lee Chin is also the 2002 Harry Jerome Award Recipient for  Business
Leader of the Decade. Lee-Chin has been profiled in Black
Enterprise. In 2004, he received a Hakka Achievement Award at the
Toronto Hakka Conference for his achievements in the business field.
Lee-Chin ranks 17th on the Canadian Business Rich List, which
recognizes Canada's 100 wealthiest people, and also made it to the
World's Wealthiest list at rank 490


Sources:

AIC Limited http://www.aic.com/en/main/home.asp?Disp=http%
3A//www.aic.com/en/Fund_managers/Michael_lee_chin.asp

Black Ottawa 411 - Jamaicans in Canada
http://www.blackottawa411.com/jcans2.htm

Association of Chinese Canadian Entrepreneurs
http://www.acce.ca/eng/news/news22102003.html

¼Ó¹ú»ªÒáÊ׸»Éí¼ÛÃÀ½ðÊ®ÒÚ
http://www.torchinese.com/cgi-bin/papers/index.cgi?
answer=1015987765&id=1015984686

2004 Toronto Hakka Conference
http://www3.sympatico.ca/toronto.hakka/haa.htm

Interesting history of Indian immigrant/Mexican intermarriage in the
US.

http://www.pbs.org/rootsinthesand/

Check out the family profiles.

Here's an excerpt from the interview with the family of Niaz
Mohamed, a Muslim from Punjab, and Lydia, his Mexican wife:

""When my mother met my dad, he was driving a Packard. He looked
different and he drove a really nice car and he used to wear these
suits and wear these hats, y'know, that you'd see in the old movies
now. My father was older, a different faith, a different
nationality. And her mother, my grandmother, at that time really
didn't care for my dad and she was actually supposed to be marrying
another man from Santa Barbara that my grandmother wanted her to
marry. And she was, you know, in her dress and had her bridesmaids
and all that at the church. And my father went to the church and he
told her that he wanted her to know exactly how he felt, that he had
always loved her and would always love her, he said he would love
nobody else. And she left with him that day from the church. They
went to Yuma and got married, and from that day her mother didn't
talk to her for many years... So she sacrificed a lot to marry my
father."

  "My dad came to the Valley and worked his way to where he had a
modest farm and people respected him for that. Not only the people
in the Valley, but also his own people, whether they were Hindu,
whether they were Sikh, whether they were Moslem. One year we had a
real tough year. My father had had a disastrous crop season... So,
in order to get by they decided to hire out, in other words, do work
for other people. And my dad would drive one of the combines... and
my mother drove the trucks. My dad was a very proud man and would
never have... asked for help from anybody else, but together they
were a pretty formidable couple. My father from the very beginning
understood that there was no place to worship in his religion. There
was no mosque, so he never really put pressure on my mother to teach
us to follow the Moslem faith. The most convenient was naturally my
mother's faith, which was Catholic... so we have the Mohameds who
are very good Catholics."

He is the son of a Chinese father and Papuan mother, according to
Encyclopedia of the Chinese Overseas. His father was from Taishan
County in Guangdong Province.

Profile:
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/profiles/sirjuliuschan.htm

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-07/11/content_3202269.htm

Interview with the band SBL and Ramin Sakurai in Yolk magazine, an
Asian American web site.

http://www.yolk.com/v095/sbl1.html

Andrea Chia talks about race in her 7 minute short film Something
Other than Other.

Chia, whose father is Chinese and whose mother is Eurasian, talked
about childhood memories in Singapore - how her Chinese grandmother
commented negatively on her dark skin (which Chia attributes to
Indian blood from the Eurasian side of her family).

Now Chia, living in the US with her African American husband, finds
herself again faced with issues of race and color after the birth of
their son, Quinn.

To view the film, go to
http://mediathatmattersfest.org/mtm05/#

and select the square number 16 on the right.

The Encyclopedia of the Chinese Overseas mentions Wilfredo Lam
(1902 - 1982), an associate of Picasso and an influential artist in
his own right.  Lam was the son of a Chinese father and an
African/European Cuban mother. (Encyclopedia did not mention the non-
Chinese side of his heritage, btw)

For more on Lam's work and family background, see Wilfredo Lam bio
in the Guggenheim Collection
http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/artist_bio_83.html
and Spaightwood Galleries:
http://spaightwoodgalleries.com/Pages/Lam.html

Interesting perspective...
http://www.colorq.org/Articles/2004/division.htm

The autobiography Love Against the Law
(http://www.abc.net.au/message/blackarts/review/s205316.htm) tells
of obstacles Chinese-Aboriginal Tex Camfoo and his Aboriginal wife
Nelly faced in order to legally marry. Tex was son of a Chinese man
who migrated to Australia in the 1900s and a Rembarrnga woman.

Tex recounted the murder of his baby sister by white raiders in the
1920s, "They grabbed her by the leg and banged her up against the
tree... In those days when there were half-caste, they used to kill
us." Tex's aunt rescued him from a similar fate by carrying him off
into the hills. In 2000, Australian National University held the
conference Lost in the Whitewash - Aboriginal-Chinese Encounters
from Federation to Reconciliation, which is the first conference
dedicated to Chinese-Aboriginal relations.
http://www.anu.edu.au/culture/whitewash/index.html

An interesting story from Australia (full text at
http://members.optushome.com.au/spainter/Fateandfuture.html):

A moving and informative book by Pamela Rajkowski called Linden
Girl, a story of outlawed lives (UWA Press, 1995) recounts the
extraordinary saga of an "Afghan" (actually an Indian Muslim from
the Punjab), Jack Akbar, who married a young Aboriginal woman,
Lallie, in Western Australia in the 1920s.

This scholarly and thorough book documents how the notorious Western
Australian "Protector" of Aborigines, Auber Octavius Neville, had
Jack Akbar and Lallie, who ultimately produced a family of three
children, imprisoned several times for the "crime" of marrying each
other. It is an extraordinary story of human courage and endurance.
The devoted couple escaped a number of times, on one occasion making
an extraordinary journey across the Nullabor Plain with Lallie
pregnant, and which they only survived because he was an experienced
camel driver and she, coming of a tribe of desert Aborigines, was
used to living off the land.

Eventually they beat the rap, so to speak, for their
marriage "crime", and lived happily for many years after the
Department of Aboriginal Affairs eventually gave up trying to
separate them out of exhaustion.

The significance of this book in relation to the stolen children is
that the author found repeated and constant references
in "Protector" Neville's private papers to the policy of removing
mixed-race children from their Aboriginal parents in an attempt
to "breed the colour out". One of Neville's objections to the
marriage between Akbar and Lallie was that in his racist universe
they were both coloured, and therefore a union between them would
only perpetuate the continuation of undesirable coloured races.

It is a sad start to the year, considering the unhappy events that
befell our neighbors that sadly we are not immune to. But it is also
encouraging to see the outpouring of compassion from Singaporeans
and also from people from around the world. Keep up the good work
and may this year be kinder than the previous one.

Hi y'all! I'm glad to see that we have grown a bit. Feel free to
introduce yourselves, or post articles of interest or simply share
your thoughts :-)

This is a 1998 article from AsianWeek, an Asian American zine:

The Minority Interracial Couples
Dating someone of a different race who isn't white can be difficult

http://www.asianweek.com/040998/feature.html

Of course, the American experience is not identical to the
Singaporean one, but I was wondering if any of you had similar
experiences in Singapore?

Any parents of transracially adopted children out there? I'm curious
as to what the 'race' of your child is, as specified in the birth
certificate or identity card. Do we follow the 'race' of the
original parents or the 'race' of the legal parents?

In Singapore it is not unheard of for someone to not look like
a 'typical' member (if there is such a thing) of their specified
'race'. For example, I had an acquaintance who has a Chinese father
and Malay mother. Since his father had converted to Islam, he had an
Islamic name. His IC/Passport stated his race as 'Chinese' since
official classifications generally follow the patrilineal rule of
descent. Because he didn't look Chinese or even had a Chinese name,
he would get a 'curious look' from people checking his IC or
Passport, but he did not mention any hostile questioning.

I've had heard some mixed race acquaintances from the US talk about
how they received hostile questions or comments, like, "You can't
possibly have that name.", or "What are you? Where are you from?"
(According to them, the question was not asked out of good-natured
curiousity but with actual hostility).

I'm wondering if parents or individuals in Singapore or neighboring
countries have any experiences - positive, negative or neutral - to
share?

The main reason for approving messages is to screen out spammers -
pp who join only to post ads.  Now that we might be getting a little
more active (I hope), I've approved all pp who have posted before
(uum, that's just 3 pp - papersalad, skittishlady and teddy)
to 'unmoderated' mode to make my life easier.

Of course, as moderator, I still reserve the right to delete already-
posted messages, but I don't think I'd have to do that :-)

Happy chatting!